Episode 11

October 17, 2023


From Queens to the White House: The Entrepreneurial Journey of Doug Fath

Hosted by

Steve Seymour

Show Notes

In this riveting episode of the Investor Agents Podcast, we sit down with the multi-faceted Legacy Companies co-founder Doug Fath. Doug's entrepreneurial journey is nothing short of inspiring from starting ventures in sports apparel and real estate to being recognized at distinguished global platforms such as the White House and the United Nations. A proud alumnus of NYU's Stern School of Business, Doug dives deep into his roots from Queens, NY, and how his passion for financial education has propelled him to the pinnacles of success. Beyond business, we explore Doug's personal interests, including his love for sports and the joy of traveling with his family. Join us for an insightful conversation with a man who believes in leaving a legacy through knowledge and empowerment.


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Episode Transcript

[00:00:13] Speaker A: Welcome to the investors. Agent podcast. Today we have Doug faith on Doug, thanks for being on today. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on. Glad to be here. [00:00:19] Speaker A: So Doug and I have known each other probably over a decade now, and it goes way back. And even then, I was like, wow, this guy's really far ahead in the real estate game. And he's just continued to excel. So I'm super impressed by him. And happy to have you on the show today. Thank you for being willing to share some knowledge and experience. So, Doug, I always like to ask, what got you into real estate investing in the first place? I started young. [00:00:46] Speaker B: I started when I was in college. At the time, I was planning to become an investment. Thought, you know, you had to go to school, get a job. And I started reading books on entrepreneurship and investing. And one of those books was about real estate investing, and I just got hooked. [00:01:01] Speaker A: What book was that? [00:01:03] Speaker B: So it was a book on Warren Buffett. And the real estate investing book was. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Rich Dad, Poor Dad, Rich Dad, Poor dad. We've heard that. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Sure. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Nice. And then so you're in college, and how did you get started? What did you actually start doing? [00:01:17] Speaker B: So, I actually started a couple of sports apparel companies. Had no idea what I was doing, got into the right products at the right time. Time when the throwback jerseys were really big in the hip hop community with Mitchell and S. So had no idea what I was doing. But I placed an order on my credit card, and just because it was the right product, it was sold out before my credit card came due. [00:01:35] Speaker C: Wow. [00:01:36] Speaker B: And so I kind of parlayed that, sold those businesses and then took that capital and started buying Real. [00:01:42] Speaker A: That's that's pretty interesting. So you started a completely unrelated business, got a little capital, and then you put it into real estate. What were you buying? Rental properties. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Flipping rental properties. I started out with rental properties day one. I was buying low income, affordable. My mortgage broker used to always joke if I had any more car loans. I mean, my first house I bought was $13,000. I put $8,000 into it, and then I refinanced with, like, a $25,000 loan. [00:02:10] Speaker A: So some really cheap houses compared to what they are today. [00:02:14] Speaker C: Yes. [00:02:16] Speaker A: And did you end up holding that portfolio, or did you build it up and sell it in 1031, or what was your next kind of yeah, so. [00:02:25] Speaker B: I ended up building up that portfolio. And while I was doing that, I kind of stumbled on to student housing because I was looking at some low income properties, and someone was like, oh, you could rent this to students. It was by Temple University for five times as much money a month. And I was like, really? And so then I got into student housing, built a pretty good sized portfolio of student housing and then sort of traded the low income as well as the student housing into better areas. Center City Fishtown through 1030 ones. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Nice. That's an awesome progression. So I know that's a lot right there. That sounds easy, but that's not easy. It can all be done, though. Yes. What would you say was your biggest challenge? And then the follow up question is going to be what did you learn from it? [00:03:17] Speaker B: My biggest challenge was I'm a visionary, so I'm focused on the future. And so I started out with rental properties. I didn't have any income, and so I said, hey, I'm going to buy rental properties. And so I think one of the mistakes that I made was I didn't realize, well, what if the boiler goes? What if your tenant doesn't pay rent? That's money that I'm expecting to live off of. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah. The cash flow becomes no cash flow real quick when that happens. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Do you have cash reserves? [00:03:48] Speaker C: Right. [00:03:48] Speaker B: And so pretty early on, a mistake that I made was because I needed that money to live off of. I wasn't familiar with the concept of retained earnings, having savings, things like that, within the business. And so when things broke, it caused issues and got into a bunch of bad debt. But it was an amazing experience because getting out of that situation is really where I learned hands on about cash flow management, real financial education, setting up businesses the right way. [00:04:19] Speaker A: You know, in that Rich Dad, Poor dad book, he talks about that, right? [00:04:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Well, he talks about a point where he had a bunch of property and then was essentially making no money because of not necessarily capex, but just cash flow management. And that's why he wanted to yeah. [00:04:34] Speaker B: There'S literally quotes in that book that I refer back to or have had that sear with me, that it was similar for my experience, too. I will say, ironically, learning from that experience and setting up investments and businesses the right way with retained earnings, capital allocation plans, it's like when I didn't have it set up, everything that could go wrong went wrong. Since I've set it up properly, it seems like you don't have those emergencies anymore. And then what you do sometimes, but then when you do, you actually have right. [00:05:04] Speaker A: It's not a problem. [00:05:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Problems just cost money in this business, basically. And it's just you have the money to solve the problems. [00:05:11] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:12] Speaker A: So with all that, it sounds like you've created some good financial habits. And I know we've talked in the past about how really what separates the poor from the wealthy is their financial habits. Do you mind sharing some of the financial habits that you've employed? And maybe if there's any seminars, books, trainings, or anything for someone to learn good financial habits the right way early on. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think it's really basic. And Kiyosaki talks about this in his books as well, in terms of hiring a bookkeeper, hiring an accountant, just on a personal standpoint, like, my wife and I, we have a family budget. We look at it every month. We sit down with our accountant and go over it. And that's just at a basic level to see what are we saving, what are we investing, what are we spending? But then also doing that same thing for your business or for your investment property. And then as the portfolio grows, you're doing that across a lot of different entities, but super important. [00:06:11] Speaker A: So more cash in than cash out. [00:06:13] Speaker B: That is key. That's what cash flow is all about, right? [00:06:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:17] Speaker A: I mean, you don't know what you don't know. That's coming down the pike. And that comes with experience. Like, you were a smart guy when you got into it. It's not like you were a dumb person. Right. Just made plenty of dumb mistakes, though. [00:06:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:28] Speaker B: But sometimes you got to learn the hard way. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Or at least for me anyway, right. Hopefully. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Well, myself included. I think every real estate investor will say they've made plenty of financial mistakes, but they have always learned from them. Hopefully, yes. The good ones. What do you look at from all right, so you kind of told us about how you got started, and then so you started with some low income, got into student housing, traded up into some better quality properties, which makes a ton of sense in the world. If you were to go back and start over, would you have done anything differently? [00:07:03] Speaker B: The one thing that I would have done differently, again, because it caused me the most pain, I was too focused on the future. Like, it's great to have that vision in the future, but also making sure that I was really focused on the real cash flow now of just not getting into a situation where I was, like, digging a deeper hole. For me, it was like, oh, I have all this equity. I'm acquiring these awesome properties. I see the value there on paper. I know it's going to be worth it, but sort of ignoring, like, oh, this boiler just went, or this went, and I'm throwing this on a credit card, whatever the case may be. So I think for me, it just would have been a bit more balance, a bit more balance between the future and now. [00:07:42] Speaker A: I feel that pain. I'm actually feeling that pain right now. If I'm being completely transparent here, just building a lot of equity and valuations going up, but not wanting to sell because I don't want to create a taxable event, could I trade up? Maybe. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Everyone goes, right? Everything changes. And sometimes some of those things that happened years ago can rear their head again. Even when you're doing things the right way, per se. Just cycles. [00:08:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:13] Speaker A: So that was your growth mode. [00:08:15] Speaker C: Right? [00:08:15] Speaker A: And then I'm sure you kind of have shifted a little bit more into I know you're still growing, but preservation, asset protection, because at the beginning, you're not really worried about losing anything if you don't have anything. Right. With your new ventures. I know you said you're going more into development currently and then also private hard money lending. [00:08:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:08:38] Speaker A: So do you want to talk a little bit about your businesses and what you're currently doing? [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so we still have the hard money lending business we started in 2015 or 17 now. And so we still have that. That business is we don't really do any marketing or advertising for that. It's just kind of existing customers that we continue to service the development. I've been doing that since 2008, although we have about three or four years ago, made a strategic decision to really focus on workforce and affordable housing and made a commitment to be the number one workforce housing provider in the city of Philadelphia. So we've been really focused on building that out. We'll do about 100 homes this year, a little over 200 homes next year. And so a lot of the growth and the hiring we're doing is in our construction business to build all those homes as well as in our sales business to sell those homes. [00:09:31] Speaker A: It's an impressive business, building 100 homes a year. And these are ground up new construction. [00:09:38] Speaker B: These are ground up new construction. And it takes a team. [00:09:42] Speaker C: Right? [00:09:42] Speaker B: I have partners in that business. I have my role, they have their role. We've got a team, probably about 20 people. [00:09:49] Speaker A: So how affordable is affordable in the city? [00:09:51] Speaker B: That's a great question because that comes up a lot, because initially what's affordable? People complain that that's not really affordable. So we're selling new construction homes. Three bedroom, two bath, from as low as 180,000 to 280,000. [00:10:07] Speaker C: Wow. [00:10:08] Speaker A: So you must have your cost of construction really dialed in. And is it subsidized at all with any yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker B: These are RFPs that the city puts out that you have to bid on and get awarded. So we've been awarded these homes, and that's kind of where the subsidy is. And then the city it's called the Turn the Key Program. Their goal is to put 1000 working Philadelphians in these homes, and they offer up to a $75,000 soft second for the home buyer where they don't have to service that loan. And if they stay in it for 15 or 20 years, that goes away. So, for example, let's say it's 275 is the purchase price. [00:10:54] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:55] Speaker B: They get a $75,000 soft second, which they don't have to make monthly payments for, and then they'd have a $200,000 mortgage. But because of that $75,000 soft second, it's considered a mortgage buy down. So that rate that they're paying on a $200,000 loan, instead of maybe being seven and a half percent, it's six and a half percent. [00:11:15] Speaker A: It's huge in this environment, right? [00:11:17] Speaker B: It's huge. Like, literally, these homeowners, they're paying more in rent than they're now paying for mortgage, insurance, taxes. [00:11:25] Speaker A: It's a great program. It's really going to help the city, I would think. [00:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:29] Speaker B: One, it's getting taxes and utilities back on these payrolls and it's getting working class Philadelphians in these homes that outside of this new construction, homes are minimum half a million and up. [00:11:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Because developers can't make money otherwise, at least from what I understand, depending what size houses are you guys building? Like, what's the square footage? [00:11:47] Speaker B: Between 1100 to about 1400 square foot. [00:11:49] Speaker A: And these are typically all row houses, I'm assuming. Yeah. [00:11:52] Speaker C: Wow. [00:11:53] Speaker A: And then is parking a big issue there? I mean, do they loosen up on parking restrictions because you're doing affordable? [00:11:58] Speaker B: So the zoning code doesn't require parking. So there's no parking. You actually need to get a variance if you want to have parking. If you want to, yeah. [00:12:05] Speaker A: This is how unfamiliar I am with Philly. [00:12:08] Speaker B: It's changed. It goes back and forth. But I mean, parking still is an issue and continues to be a big issue. [00:12:15] Speaker A: So with that business, I know you said one of the biggest challenges now is hiring people. Can you talk about a little bit of what you're looking for, what you're looking to hire just in case someone's out there and how they could apply? Possibly, yeah. [00:12:28] Speaker C: Great. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Well, to apply, if you go to our legacy companies, is our holding company. We've got a handful of businesses in that, including the real estate division. So legacycomp comp.com, we've got a hiring page and we have all of our positions there, but right now we're hiring for project managers, site superintendents, assistant site superintendents, some admins on the sales side, we're hiring for sales support videographers. [00:12:57] Speaker A: That's awesome. You got a lot of growth happening. [00:13:00] Speaker B: We do, yeah. And lessons learned there, too. We had a COO that we hired in that business a couple of years ago, did a lot of great things and at the end of the day just didn't work out. [00:13:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:13] Speaker B: That was probably one of my biggest learning lessons over the past year. And so that's another position that we're going to be rehiring for next year. But we want to fill some of the other positions first. [00:13:25] Speaker A: I know you said before to me offline here that you're the visionary. Right. Has that always come natural to you, where you can kind of see the future of future opportunities and be able to take that vision to the ground and then implement it or have other people implement it, maybe? I don't know. [00:13:43] Speaker B: I think the visionary. Yeah. I've always been, again, future oriented and creating what's next, that's what fuels me. That's what I get up for. I love doing that. And I do also like building things to an extent. [00:13:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:13:57] Speaker B: So there's like the visionary, the integrator. I feel like I used to be solely visionary. I kind of shared with you some of the mistakes that I made with that early on. And so I think I've developed more integrator tendencies and again, a bit more balanced, which sometimes is good sometimes. [00:14:15] Speaker A: In your current model, though, are you like the visionary in terms of who's leading the company? [00:14:20] Speaker B: Yes, I would say, too, my partners also have visionary tendencies as well. So I'd say it's definitely collaborative. It's a collaborative. And right now, with the change in COO, I'm back in that operator mode hardcore right now. So that's why going back to the. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Hiring is just a lot of fun, right? [00:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Sometimes that's good for a visionary to see that side of it. And it sounds like you have that ability to do both. Like you have a unique ability. Because I know for me, I have no operational skills. It's like I have to get someone else to do that. I ask only because going back, looking at all the different things you've done, had you known your unique strengths you've gotten so far so not to say you would have gone further, but for anyone listening, it's so important to figure out what your unique strengths are and then surround yourself with people who can make up the difference. [00:15:14] Speaker B: I'd say it took me 20 years to get to a point where and it doesn't need to take that long, but I'm a little slow, apparently, but 20 years to really get to that idea or concept of unique ability. And I was introduced to that through Dan Sullivan and the strategic coach program around 2013, I think it was. And at that point, I was doing everything in house. We did construction management in house, property management in house. I was on job sites, and I'm a finance big picture guy, right. And after being introduced to the unique ability concept, I was like, okay, I'm not doing this stuff anymore. And it's what had me go out and look for other people, find partnerships for the lending company, find partnerships now with what we're doing on the development side. And so I've been really fortunate and blessed with the partners that I have. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it's awesome that you've gone so far in the business and then being able to pinpoint that and get the right people around you. Obviously you guys are doing something very efficiently because that's not an easy business to run. It's not. What are your verticals? So you guys have your holdings, right? Your real estate portfolio, you don't do outside property management, correct? [00:16:27] Speaker C: No. Correct. [00:16:28] Speaker A: But do you self manage or? [00:16:29] Speaker B: We don't self manage. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Okay, so third party. [00:16:32] Speaker B: It's third party. [00:16:33] Speaker A: That's smart. Every smart investor will tell you that. [00:16:37] Speaker B: Well, even with the construction, as I said, we did it in house. We didn't have it in house. And then three years ago we did because of strategically what we wanted to do with workforce and affordable housing. So in the real estate division, we've got our lending business. We've got our construction company and we've got our development company, and then we've got our holdings and rentals, which is primarily multifamily and cool hotel. [00:16:58] Speaker A: A cool hotel? [00:16:59] Speaker C: Yes. Nice. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:01] Speaker A: What hotel? [00:17:01] Speaker B: It's called a guild house hotel. It's 13th and Locust. Awesome story. It's a historical building. [00:17:07] Speaker A: It's like a great location. [00:17:08] Speaker B: It's a great location. It used to be home to the new Century guild. So in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds, when women were first getting involved in the workforce, the New Century Guild was the place where they met. They congregated, they gave them a voice. They would feed them meals during lunchtime because they usually couldn't afford to kind of eat out. They'd allow them to stay over there three nights a week because sometimes they couldn't afford to go back and forth to home. They had educational seminars there, just like really pioneer Trailblazing women. And so essentially, we renovated their headquarters, turned it into hotel. And basically the hotel tells the story of the New Century Guild and each room is based after a prominent member of the guild and tells their story. [00:17:57] Speaker A: That's awesome. I want to tie that into my question. It might not sound like it's tied in, but I'll do my best because my mind goes all over. So with the intention of this podcast, really my intention is obviously to share tips and tricks and factual information about how to get wealthy in real estate. But ultimately, the goal for me is to help transform the human mindset from scarcity and lack to abundance and wealth. [00:18:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:19] Speaker A: Because we live in this world of sticks and bricks and reality that we see. But then what we're feeling on the inside and the internal dialogue and the philosophy, I think is really that's the state that most people are chasing, even with women getting into the workforce, they were chasing something different. Right. To have more, to be more. And I equated to like for me, it's freedom. Right. Financial freedom that really resonates with me. And it's not financial freedom. It's really freedom. [00:18:48] Speaker C: Yes. [00:18:48] Speaker A: It's the illusion that the finances will give you the freedom. And they do to an extent. Right, obviously. But with that said, I would just love to get your philosophy around abundance lack and your mindset around that and what you've done to stay in that abundance mindset. Because you can't create what Doug has done by being in a scarcity, lack mindset. There's too much fear that will get in the way and stop you. What helped you to step through in those courageous moments to take action in the face of fear and remain abundant in your belief and what you were doing? [00:19:23] Speaker B: I think that's where big question. [00:19:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Well, going back to the visionary, I think that's where having a clear vision has always been pivotal for me because I would say when I was younger and I just did a presentation on this for one of my mastermind groups talking about in my twenty s, and I was all about like, I wanted to own 100%. I wanted to own everything. [00:19:46] Speaker C: Right? [00:19:46] Speaker B: And so it was just this sort of scarcity, smaller mindset. And the big shift for me happened in my 30s with the concept of unique ability, but creating this larger vision where I don't have to own it all. And actually I don't want to own it all. And actually for me to fulfill my vision, it's not possible for me to own it all. So, like, very different mindset of I want to own it all. Right, scarcity to I actually want to give it away, take care of the family. But you have to do that. And even now for me, as I look and turned 40 last year, but in my forty s, the next thing for me is all about leadership and fully transforming out of that operator to owner and investor. And the only way to do that is to give people opportunities to come in, to run the different businesses that we own, give them equity, earn. [00:20:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:20:35] Speaker B: But it's giving it away. [00:20:38] Speaker A: That's awesome. I love that. That's why I resonate with this guy so much. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Thanks. [00:20:43] Speaker A: I turned 40 on Sunday. And you're just like, so much further ahead. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Happy birthday. [00:20:47] Speaker A: Thank you. But I'm not comparing. I'm not going into that lack mindset, doug's further along or whatever. It's more just I'm inspired and impressed. Like, you want to be inspired by people that are further from you, not compare. And that goes back to the gap in the gain or whatever. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Exactly. And just to that, though, and appreciate you saying that, I think it's important to touch on because I think we all deal with that comparison. [00:21:11] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:11] Speaker B: I deal with that too, at times. [00:21:13] Speaker A: You could go sit next to someone who's got a billion dollars in real estate, and you're going to be like, oh man, I'm a schlep, I'm a loser. [00:21:19] Speaker B: There's always someone. [00:21:20] Speaker A: And maybe you have a billion. [00:21:21] Speaker B: I don't know. Not yet. Not yet. No. But there's always someone, right. That is next level. And I think one of the things for me, the last handful of years and people resonate with different things, but for me, the person that I compete with every day is my former self, me, yesterday. [00:21:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:37] Speaker B: So forget what Steve's doing. Forget what this person is doing. I have my vision. I have what I want to do. I want to be a better version of myself and keep growing. And as long as I'm doing that, I'm happy, I'm fulfilled, and I'm moving towards what I'm doing. And again, going back to creating that vision, there's things that I could do that would maybe make me more money to have, but there's other aspects where maybe that violates or like, you want to be ethical, you want to do things the right way. I want to have time for my family. And so it's really clarifying that vision for yourself because that's unique to you, right? And then just going after it. [00:22:11] Speaker A: That is awesome. All right, one more shift. Since you're Big Mind finance guy in my opinion, I always like to get I know you don't have a crystal ball, but if you had to make some guesstimates, predictions, whatever you want to call them in terms of where we are and where we're heading. Obviously interest a lot of and I'm in the real estate sales world with a bunch of realtors. So it's like the big complaints like, well, there's not enough inventory. Rates are too high. That's the bottle of the neck. Obviously with you being in commercial and multifamily and doing larger developments, you're probably looking at things with a different lens. But I know you're still looking at the macroeconomics and where things are heading just to stay a little bit ahead of the curve. What do you foresee in terms of inventory? I know you're in the Philly market, so is inventory loosening? Is there more opportunities for buyers? What do you see out there? And then what are you thinking with the interest rates over the next year or two? [00:23:09] Speaker B: Macro wise? I believe things are still going to get worse before they get better. From an interest rate perspective, I do think we are either at or very close to peak interest rates, which I think is now kind of the common consensus. I do disagree that I feel like people think rates are just going to drop back down and go back down to zero. I don't think that's the case. Howard Marks, who I follow and love, his newsletters that he puts out, he wrote an article called Sea Chains and just talks about the history of interest rates historically and where we are at now, and basically talking about like, we're never going back down to those level of interest. [00:23:50] Speaker A: We're actually at an average interest rate, about exactly close to average. [00:23:54] Speaker B: But if you were in the market the last 20 years or so, you grew up in a world of the Fed rate at zero, right? Not at five and a half percent. And so anyway, he says we're not going back down to zero. It's probably, I think he says two to 4%, which I think is probably a more realistic range. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Are you seeing prices pulling back in certain Philadelphia neighborhoods or is there still enough demand to keep up with? [00:24:20] Speaker B: There's definitely a slowdown, I would say. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Yeah, like a little more days on market, a little less bidding wars. I know the neighborhoods have come back a little bit, back again a little bit. [00:24:31] Speaker B: I feel like I see this new thing now where people are like the strategy is listing a little where it is because there isn't a whole lot of inventory. And so everyone gets that MLS and like, oh my goodness, this is like such a deal, and then you get a bunch of people and then it bids it up again, which is interesting. [00:24:53] Speaker A: What are you guys doing in terms of your model to help insulate yourself from that? Or is it such a niche model that it's not really not to say it's not affected by it. And I think I know the answer, but I want to hear from you. [00:25:07] Speaker B: So we're finishing up our last Market Rate deal right now that we started about two years ago as a 29 unit new construction building. We actually sold fully developed projects that we were going to build market Rate a couple of years ago or maybe about a year ago at this point because we didn't like where the market was headed. We just didn't want to take that risk. And again, with the workforce and affordable housing that we've been focusing on, that is pretty insulated with what we're doing. [00:25:36] Speaker A: In terms of how. So I just want to know from your thoughts, how is that? Yeah, because of the massive demand. Right. And then the subsidy. [00:25:45] Speaker B: The massive demand. [00:25:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:46] Speaker B: I mean, at the end of the day, they're buying homes between two and 280 that are half a million, 600,000 in that area. So there's always going to be the demand for it from a value perspective. And then with the financing and the subsidies, they're basically getting up to $75,000 of free money and not including grants that help with the down payments. But to me, the biggest I'm not a believer that everyone should own a home. I know that's a big thing, the American dream. I don't believe that because when you own a home, going back to the boiler, this that right. And so there are other real things that come into that. So I don't believe anyone should get into a home in this situation. Their payments are less than they're paying in rent. [00:26:29] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:29] Speaker A: So then it makes sense. [00:26:30] Speaker B: So it makes sense you're not taking someone that can't afford that and putting them into a home they can't afford. It's actually more affordable for them. And going back to transformation. These are transformational opportunities. It's giving people these are families that are buying these homes. [00:26:45] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:46] Speaker B: It's giving them a safe home, a secure home, stability. And really, for the first time in their life, it's actually allowing them to create wealth. [00:26:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:53] Speaker B: There's this thing as amortization instead of rent, where 100% goes out the door, when you make your mortgage payment, you're paying interest, obviously. Basically. And you're paying principal. [00:27:01] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:02] Speaker B: So they're actually being able to create wealth for the first time. [00:27:04] Speaker A: And I'm assuming you don't have a shortage of buyers. [00:27:07] Speaker B: No. [00:27:08] Speaker A: Is there a there's? [00:27:10] Speaker B: There is a waitlist. It's the turn. The key program in Philadelphia. If anyone's interested in learning more about it, you can go to our website, which is chavetaproperotygroup.com. I can give you the info for people. To yeah, we'll post it, but yeah, I mean, it's a process. There's a lot of interested buyers, for obvious reasons. And again, there are income qualifications. [00:27:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:35] Speaker B: Like it's designed for you can't make over a certain amount of income because they want again. [00:27:41] Speaker A: All right, so with everything we covered, because I don't want to drag this on too much, but I think that you've hit on some really important things. I just like to fire a few questions. So what was the most impactful book you've ever read for real estate investing? And I know you mentioned Rich Dad, Poor dad, so we're just going to disqualify that one. [00:27:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker A: It could be for Mindset or scaling. What book had the biggest impact on you? [00:28:07] Speaker B: Well, I'd say for scaling and the more business books that can be applied to real estate. But traction and Scaling up were two operating systems. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Do you guys follow scaling up or EOS? [00:28:19] Speaker B: We do. We used EOS in a handful of businesses, and then maybe four or five years ago transitioned to scaling up. We just kind of felt that was a little bit more robust. [00:28:29] Speaker A: Got it. [00:28:30] Speaker C: All right. [00:28:30] Speaker A: And then if you were to give someone one tip getting started that wants to get into investing, that's really just stuck on the sidelines, what would you tell them? [00:28:40] Speaker B: Start now? [00:28:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker B: There's always another reason why tomorrow. This, that again. [00:28:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:28:47] Speaker B: I shared the mistakes and some of the holes that I had to dig myself out of. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Interest rates are too high. There's no deals out there. The market's not good. Why? Come on, Doug. Why now? [00:28:56] Speaker B: Well, that's it. There's always a reason. [00:28:58] Speaker C: Right? [00:28:58] Speaker B: And so if you give into those reasons, it's going to be 20 years later, and you're still going to be saying, if I didn't take that first jump in college, 2004 when I burnt. [00:29:08] Speaker A: My it was so much easier when you started. Doug, come on. It's different now. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Yeah. At the end of the day, there's always excuses, and you need to do what you want to do. [00:29:22] Speaker A: What would you say to this person? I need to save up more money before I start investing in real estate? [00:29:27] Speaker B: I would say I'd ask them a question. How could you start today without needing to save up more money? Because I think too often we want the immediate answer. We have these things. But when you ask a question, it's one of the things I talk about with my kids. We're not allowed to say can't in our household say, how can I? [00:29:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:47] Speaker B: Because when you say can't, just shuts things down. When you ask a question, it opens up your thinking, allows you to think, ask for advice, get help and support. So I'd ask that question. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Awesome. Any seminars or anything for people to follow that you think is really helpful for you? [00:30:06] Speaker B: Certainly. Kind of where we met and where I met my wife and landmark education seminars. [00:30:12] Speaker A: And Landmark is about real estate, right? [00:30:15] Speaker B: It can be. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Did I ever tell you that story? Maybe I did, but it would have been ten years ago. I wouldn't expect you to remember it. [00:30:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker A: So my real estate mentor shout out to Teresa Pointer from Long and Foster. I joined her team and my Acura broke down and I was supposed to do an open house. This was on a Saturday. I call her, I'm like, hey Teresa, I just want to let you know I can't do the open house. She's like, oh, so you're going to break your word? I was like, what? I was like, no, I can't come because my car is broke. I don't have any money to fix it. I have to fix it myself. And she's like, that's fine, but just to be clear, you're breaking your word. And I just kept arguing with her and she's like, look, I don't want to get into this right now. She's like, we'll talk on Monday. I come in on Monday morning. I didn't do the open house, by the way. I broke my word. Not in my mind at the time. I had a completely valid excuse. Anyway, Monday morning she's like, look, if you want to be on my team, I'm going to put you in this program. It's called Landmark Forum. If you don't want to be on my team, that's fine. You don't have to take it. I'll pay for it. But if you want to stay on the team, you have to take it. Sure. Free education. Register it. So it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, from like eight in the morning till ten at night or something. It's a long days. I'm in this class for about four and a half hours. I'm like, why are these people talking about all their problems? When are we going to get to real estate? She didn't tell me anything, what it was. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:31:40] Speaker C: Okay. [00:31:40] Speaker A: So I was waiting for real estate to happen because it's called Landmark too, right? [00:31:46] Speaker B: That is funny. [00:31:47] Speaker A: And then I was like, I mean, it hit me. It was very transformational impactful for me as well. So definitely Landmark is a great one, but it's not real estate. No, it can help you with real estate for sure. [00:31:58] Speaker B: It's a personal growth and development. Right? [00:32:01] Speaker A: I just had to share that story. [00:32:03] Speaker B: Because that is a great story. And that's funny that you went in there thinking it was real estate. [00:32:08] Speaker A: It was at least 4 hours and I was like, why are these people crying about their lives? What is this? [00:32:12] Speaker B: But it's a great example of whatever you want in your life, whatever you want business wise or investing wise. How to invest in real estate is just the mechanics of it, right? But it's really who you are as an individual, your character, your growth and development, right. That we got exposed to and learned in Landmark education and other stuff. There's a lot of different things. [00:32:34] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:34] Speaker B: But it's like I am a firm believer that whatever I want my businesses to look like, or however big a. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Vision I have, it's just a reflection of who you are. [00:32:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker B: It can only grow vehicle. It can only grow as much as I grow, and I'm willing to grow. [00:32:48] Speaker A: I love that. Very last question. What is money? How do you look at money in terms of just your beliefs around it and what it is? [00:33:01] Speaker B: It's a tool. It's a tool that allows you to do things. [00:33:07] Speaker A: All right, that's fair. I love getting people's different perspective on it. [00:33:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:13] Speaker B: And I will say, for me, it's a game. And I think that's a shift that I've made where going from scarcity to abundance. When I'm in scarcity, it's not a game. Right. It's like, I need this money. I need to hoard it, whatever the case may be. And now, just like with business, for me, money is a scorecard. It's not the only scorecard I have, but that is one of the ways that I assess. [00:33:37] Speaker A: It's a measurement. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for being on today. If there's anything else you want to. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Know when you asked about a book, what popped up into my head? And sorry, it wasn't real estate, but one of my all time favorite books is principles by Ray Dalio is a highly recommend that book. [00:33:57] Speaker A: And there's the principal's workbook. [00:33:59] Speaker B: Principal's workbook. And then he's written a handful of. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Other books, and there's a principal's app that goes along with the workbook. [00:34:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:34:06] Speaker A: And it's got a personality profile built into it, which is kind of cool. [00:34:10] Speaker B: That's right. [00:34:11] Speaker A: It's a little different take on some of the other ones. [00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Nice. Well, thanks for being on. I'll second everything you said because smart and I agree with it all. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Well, thanks, Steve, and thanks for having me. [00:34:24] Speaker C: Thanks. Yep.

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